Joy-Driven Development (Part 1)

This week’s newsletter brings the key highlights from the 11th episode of the Cyb3rSyn Labs Podcast, featuring Martin Chesbrough. In Part 1 of our conversation, Martin discusses his professional trajectory, including his early exposure to Systems Thinking through his work in operations research and later, his formal study of the subject during a Master's program.

He reflects on his experience at Nokia Networks, recognizing the limitations of a purely mechanistic view of organizations and the crucial importance of considering the human element. Martin also introduces the concept of "joy-driven development," drawing connections to the philosophy of W. Edwards Deming and the practices of Menlo Innovations, proposing it as a human-centered approach to software development.

He elegantly sets the stage for a deeper exploration of Open Systems Theory, particularly the work of Fred Emery and its relevance to understanding and managing organizations effectively.

It was a true honor and delight to host Martin Chesbrough on the Cyb3rSyn Labs Podcast. Joining us from Australia, Martin shared his fascinating professional journey, weaving together threads of engineering, operations research, systems thinking, quality management, and eventually, a profound exploration of humanistic approaches to organizations.

Our conversation peeled back the layers of his diverse experiences, revealing key insights crucial for anyone navigating the complexities of modern business, especially for senior leadership grappling with organizational design and human dynamics. Here are some key highlights from our conversation…

One of the most intriguing aspects of Martin's introduction was his current title: "Intern". He explained this stems from working at Everest Engineering, a software engineering consultancy run by his friend and mentor, Craig Brown. Despite being the oldest person in the company surrounded by young engineers, the title began as a joke, inspired by the Robert De Niro film.... However, Martin embraces it seriously as a symbol of continuous learning. He subscribes to the Taiichi Ohno principle of destroying preconceptions daily, approaching each day with a fresh lens. This title serves as a constant reminder of this philosophy.

A pivotal moment came when Martin migrated to Australia and pursued a Master's in Systems Engineering. He chose this path because of his belief in engineering's power to solve problems, deliberately avoiding the common MBA route. It was during this Master's that he formally encountered systems thinking, specifically finding profound insight in Peter Checkland's Soft Systems Methodology (SSM). This approach shifted his perspective to think about organizations, ventures, and projects through the lens of the people involved and their interactions. He also mentioned Checkland's CATWOE framework as a key lens.

He shared a fascinating example from his Master's program: Analyzing the proposed fast rail project between Sydney and Melbourne. This route is the country's highest air traffic route. While a rail line exists, the journey took around 12 hours. The project analysis went beyond just the technology needed for high speed; it comprehensively considered economics, social aspects (train vs. plane preferences), the fundamentally different passenger experience offered by a multi-hour train journey compared to flying, and access to amenities. This application demonstrated the power of a holistic, systems approach.

This was back in the 1990s and so high-speed WiFi was not existent - but Martin did bring it up as another key factor in our conversation. This reminded me of Rory’s Sutherland’s example of the EuroStar…

Martin's Master's thesis focused on quality management in software projects, leading him to discover W. Edwards Deming. He learned from Deming's book "Out of the Crisis," initially from a quality management perspective. However, he quickly learned that Deming's work is more than just quality tools; it's a comprehensive management philosophy, encompassing principles like the 14 points for management and the seven deadly diseases.

Upon returning to his company (Oracle at the time), he eagerly tried to apply these Deming-inspired ideas, even applying for a promotion. The rejection, while perhaps humbling, taught him a crucial lesson: applying theoretical models requires understanding that organizations are fundamentally about people, and you must bring them along on the journey. He admitted his managerial approach at the time was immature, largely based on a mechanistic model of organizing structure, incentives, OKR, and KPIs. I jokingly remarked that this is exactly how Silicon Valley bigwigs still run their companies.

Despite early challenges in applying systems thinking, Martin achieved significant career success following a more conventional path, reaching senior roles like VP of consulting and CIO/CEO. However, later in his career, he began reflecting on his achievements and felt drawn back to systems thinking.

He described a pivotal "light bulb moment" that crystallized his shift away from the mechanistic view. This occurred around 2005 while he was a VP at Nokia Networks and involved in reorganizing a large services business across Europe, Middle East, and Africa. He had planned the transformation using a standard mechanistic approach – defining structure, objectives, and KPIs. A conversation with a consultant, Bill Critchley, challenged this view. Martin realized he was designing a change impacting thousands of people based on a model he intellectually knew was flawed, working against the systems principles he had previously encountered.

This realization created a "void," forcing him to seek a different model, a more humanistic one, based around people and getting the best out of them. He initially conceptualized this as the "bubble model," realizing from a conversation with a colleague that many reorganizations simply shuffle roles at the top without fundamentally changing the work or impact lower down – akin to rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic while it is still headed straight for the iceberg. This experience solidified a near 20-year journey focused on integrating corporate structures and management with the human element.

This journey eventually led him to Open Systems Theory (OST). He connected with a group studying the work of Fred Emery. The discovery came through an unusual path involving a Norwegian friend, Trond Hjorteland, from the Domain Driven Design (DDD) community. Trond was exploring a 1970s Norwegian experiment on participative democracy led by Fred Emery.

Martin sees OST as highly relevant today, particularly in tech communities like DDD, which are increasingly looking at sociotechnical systems beyond the limitations of just Conway's Law.

Finally, we discussed a concept Martin has been developing: Joy-Driven Development. This idea has three roots:

Combining these inspirations, Martin proposes Joy-Driven Development as a way to think about getting the best out of people in software development. Playing on terms like Test-Driven Development and Behavior-Driven Development, he argues that since software development remains a fundamentally human activity, infusing it with joy is essential to inspire the humans creating the software.

Martin's journey provides a powerful narrative about the evolution from mechanistic thinking to a more human-centric, systems-informed perspective. His experiences highlight the limitations of purely structural approaches and the profound insights gained by embracing complexity and focusing on people and their interactions within the system.

In the next episode, we’ll deep-dive into Open Systems Theory.

Members of the Cyb3rSyn Community can watch the podcast episode on the www.cyb3rsynlabs.com portal or the mobile app (iOS and Android).

The podcast episode is also available here:

For the members of the Cyb3rSyn Community and premium-tier subscribers, here is a quick list of links to all the books mentioned in the conversation…