Soft Systems & Rich Notes: Karthik Suresh (Part 2)

In this episode, Karthik Suresh introduces "Rich Notes" as a collaborative consulting method where a practitioner takes real-time, visual notes on a shared screen to capture a multi-perspective view of a problem situation. This approach moves away from traditional, objective modeling to a constructive process that prioritizes how stakeholders define their own reality and pain points.

By using technology to create a dynamic feedback loop, the practitioner can synthesize complex information into a composite picture that helps leaders identify appropriate interventions. Karthik illustrates this method through a case study in carbon reporting, showing how listening to messy organizational histories can reveal market gaps and lead to the creation of successful services and products.

The discussion emphasizes that understanding human history and behavior is more vital for solving modern organizational problems than focusing solely on technology.

This podcast episode is a MUST WATCH for Silicon Valley executives and entrepreneurs.

Members of the Cyb3rSyn Community can watch/discuss the podcast episode on the www.cyb3rsynlabs.com portal or the mobile app (iOS and Android). The video is also on YouTube here 👇🏾

As a practitioner who has spent the last 25 years trying to untangle complex cybersecurity issues through the lenses of systems thinking, complexity, and cybernetics, I am always searching for better ways to map out the messy realities of the organizations we serve. This episode is a great one from this lens.

Throughout our conversation, we explored how standard technological solutions often fail because they misinterpret the actual problem. Karthik shared profound insights on how we can use shared visual artifacts to co-create reality, why your career needs a sustainable "moat," and why you should never ask your clients "ice cream questions."

Here are the key insights and my reflections…

A common trap for consultants and technologists is assuming that a leader's mental model perfectly reflects the objective reality happening on the ground. In systems thinking, there has always been a debate sparked by pioneers like Peter Checkland: do systems actually exist in the objective world, or are they mental constructs we use to make sense of things?

Please refer to the podcast episodes with Adam Walls and Flach on this topic: Part 1 and Part 2.

Karthik operates on the principle that people actively construct their reality and so it is important to pay attention to what they say and think. To capture this, he doesn't just listen and hide his insights in a private notebook; he uses a technique that he calls "Rich Notes". Using modern tools like screen sharing and drawing tablets, Karthik takes visual notes—drawing diagrams, writing words, and making connections—in plain sight of his clients.

This simple act of shared visibility acts as an immediate, real-time feedback loop that allows for error correction. When a client sees their thoughts visualized, they can instantly correct misunderstandings. This co-creation process leverages open-source technology and video conferencing to enable remote, creative collaboration that many companies falsely believe can only happen in a physical room. The end result isn't just a polished artifact; it's a multi-perscomposite view that allows both the consultant and the client to agree on the very next action to take.

When trying to classify Karthik's "Rich Notes," it becomes clear that they don't neatly fit into traditional categories like mind maps or rich pictures. Instead, Karthik draws on the philosophical concept of the rhizome, popularized by French philosophers Deleuze and Guattari.

Traditional models often look like trees (arborescence)—they have a central trunk and branch out hierarchically. A rhizome, however, grows horizontally like a ginger root. It shoots off in different directions, forming nodes and connections without a strict center or hierarchy. Human conversations and messy organizational problems behave exactly like this. If you want to build solutions for modern, interconnected problems, you have to move beyond the highly structured, positivist thinking of the 1950s - which is great for sending a man to the moon, but struggles with the unpredictable nuances of human organizations.

To illustrate how mapping messy realities translates into business value, Karthik shared a brilliant case study from his time working in the carbon reporting space.

Karthik used his conversational mapping techniques to interview large commercial organizations about their environmental reporting. He discovered that while companies easily tracked standard utilities like electricity and gas, they completely lost visibility when tracking disparate fuels like diesel and propane across global facilities. Facilities were sending in a chaotic mix of spreadsheets, PDFs, and even photographs of physical meters.

At the time, the market's response was predictable: thousands of SaaS providers raised billions of dollars to build sleek software platforms that produced beautiful charts. However, Karthik's conversations revealed the true pain point wasn't the final chart; it was the transformation of messy, raw data into clean data. Companies were buying expensive SaaS tools but but struggled to do the grueling, complex data entry.

Instead of building another software platform, Karthik built a a services business. He trained dedicated people using tools the companies already owned (like Microsoft Excel and PowerBI) to expertly handle the messy data transformation. By deeply listening to his clients' realities, he bypassed the high-friction world of enterprise software procurement and delivered a lean, highly successful service that truly solved the customer's nightmare.

As we wrapped up, Karthik offered a golden rule for technologists, entrepreneurs, and consultants trying to understand what the market actually needs: Stop asking "ice cream questions".

If you ask someone, "Do you like this new tool I built for you?" they will almost always say yes, just as everyone says yes to ice cream. They don't want to hurt your feelings.

He also added that if you want the truth, ask people about their history. Ask them what they have actually done in the past, how they made decisions, and how they spent their money.

Ultimately, Karthik left us with a vital reminder for our community: When you are building systems, remember that the technology is only about 10% of the equation. The other 90% is understanding the situation and the people involved. If you want to build better businesses and better solutions, you simply have to get better at talking and listening to people.

If you are curious about what tools Karthik uses, please refer to this post on his website.

That’s it for this week. Stay tuned for an EPIC podcast episode next week.

For premium-tier customers, here is the full composite image from our conversation: